Exposing the lies in Odex's latest FAQ
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    Exposing the lies in Odex's latest FAQ

    spitxfire is offline #1
    Odex made an FAQ full of crap once again as expected.
    I've bolded the blatant lies and bullshit that they used to cover their arse lol

    Before reading the article, do note:
    1. Responding to the Odex / BayTSP puts you at an extremely great risk. You basically gave away your information to Odex and BayTSP.
    Now they can do anything with your information (includes selling it) and sue you for wrongdoing since you self-pwned by admitting to wrongdoing.

    2. Downloading anime is not necessarily illegal.
    So go buy anime merchandise and Blue Max anime cds to support the industry while you boycott Odex.

    3. Odex is a sub-licensee except for possibly Mobile Suit Gundam Seed. Has no right to sue or send legal letters to anime downloaders for any other titles.

    4. Only 3 anime distributors and one copyright holder backed Odex with authorisation letters.

    5. Of course Odex definitely wants everyone who settled with them to pay up.
    You have to think of their ulterior motive for this entire fiasco. Show me da money - MONEY MONEY MONEY.

    6. Of course they don't want to refund. It wouldn't be fair if they lost their quick money right?
    What's their aim again? Let's hear it again. MONEY MONEY MONEY.

    7. Only one copyright holder authorised Odex. The rest are DISTRIBUTORS. and ONLY three.

    8. Privacy was infringed when Singtel and Starhub handed over customer information.
    Odex can now use this information for ANY purpose, which includes but is not limited to sales to 3rd parties, hijacking user computers (since they could get a hacker from BayTSP, why not), etc

    9. Odex is not the law. It is not the government or public prosecutor.
    It cannot bring criminal charges. There is also no law supporting their claims for civil charges.

    10. Odex is not an ISP. Odex cannot terminate your Internet connectivity. Only ISPs can terminate your Internet connectivity.

    11. Odex cannot expel you from school. Odex is not part of MOE.
    The most probable things that can expel you from school are either breaking the law or breaking school rules.
    And remember, Odex and any Japanese firm CANNOT bring criminal charges against you.
    Only the government and public prosecutor can.

    12. Anime-fansub downloading benefits anime producers. Imagine the billions of dollars they saved on advertising to foreign countries. Imagine the billions of dollars of revenue opened up due to the growth of the anime fanbase.

    13. And oh did i mention the amazing growth of the anime industry over the last decade thanks to fansubs?
    And did i mention Fair Use adds US$2.2 trillion to the US economy each year?
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...standards.html
    http://www.electronista.com/articles....gdp.fair.use/

    14. The only people hurt by anime-fansub downloading are anime distributors that distribute sub-standard anime content because anime fans only look for high quality anime content. Fansubs are better substitutes than sub-standard anime DVDs and just make it clear that there is no reason to pay money to buy poor-quality DVDs.

    15. Games Mart which Odex's Peter Go and Stephen Sing held majority shareholding, which was charged with piracy, had their office at the same as the address of Odex's office. And so is AVPAS's office.
    Interesting... reminds me of the barney song, "I love you, you love me, we are one big family."

    16. If Odex provides accurate translations, then mistakes in the translations of names should be considered as "accurate".

    17. If Odex provides accurate translations, then mistakes in the subtitles, which totally alter the intended meaning of the anime, should be considered as "accurate".

    18. If Odex provides accurate translations, then grammatical and spelling errors are all "accurate".

    19. The possession of and ability to properly use advanced video transfer equipment are 2 TOTALLY different issues.

    20. According to Odex's statement, it seems like grammatical errors and spelling mistakes causes "discomfort to the various religious and racial groups".
    It reminds me of a certain woman who appeared in Donald Trump's The Apprentice.
    She lied to Mr Trump that it was against her religion to wear a suit called "Zip" to promote their character to "Dairy Queen".

    21. End. Below is the FAQ written by Odex. stinks of crap lol.

    --------------------------------------------------
    I’ve received an email from BayTSP and Odex which was forwarded to me by my Internet Service Provider. What does it mean?
    The email is a notice, sent by BayTSP under direction from Odex acting under the authorization of the various copyright owners and/or exclusive licensees. This BayTSP notice will essentially state that your Internet connection was used to download and share an anime movie that has been licensed or authorized to Odex. The email will also contain the name of the anime being or that has been downloaded (as the case may be) and the date and time BayTSP detected the download.

    What do I need to do?
    The BayTSP notice contains a link to a website that allows you to respond, indicating that you’ve stopped downloading the file and agree to stop downloading Odex-licensed or authorized content.

    I don’t use the computer in the household.
    We recommend you to talk with other members of the household to determine whether they have downloaded the file. The BayTSP notice is always sent to the household member who registered with the Internet Service Provider.

    In our past experience, we’ve found that individuals responsible for the Internet service often were not aware that other members of the household were downloading content from the Internet.

    If I respond to the BayTSP notice, stop downloading the file and agree to not download Odex-licensed content in the future, will I still be sued?
    If you respond to the notice and agree to its terms, and stop downloading, you will not be sued, provided however that BayTSP will continue to monitor for any additional downloading. If it detects new Odex-licensed or authorised content being downloaded, it will notify Odex. Odex will then notify the copyright owner and/or exclusive licensee and they may then pursue legal action against those who are found to have continued with their downloading despite having agreed not to do so.

    What happens if I don’t respond to the BayTSP notice?
    If you do not respond to the BayTSP notice, you run the risk of facing legal action from the copyright owner and/or exclusive licensee.

    Is downloading illegal?
    Downloading anime is illegal. If you have any doubt about that, we recommend that you do one of the following three things:
    1. Contact the Intellectual Property Office of Singapore for assistance;
    2. Ask the Law Society of Singapore for help; or
    3. Consult your own legal counsel (you will likely have to pay for professional legal advice).

    How does this new strategy affect people who have already settled with Odex?
    There are three groups of people: Individuals who have settled with us, individuals who have negotiated settlements but not yet paid, and those who have received letters but not yet responded to us.

    We are honoring the negotiated settlements with those have negotiated with us. Individuals who have agreed to settlements are still required to pay their settlement amount or they face legal action from the copyright holder. Those individuals who have received letters but not yet contacted us must do so or they face legal action from the copyright holder.

    We want to state that refunds are not available, as it would not be fair to those individuals who have negotiated with and paid us in good faith.

    If you have any questions, contact Odex at (65) 6225 6082 and tell the receptionist that you have a question regarding a BayTSP notice you received.

    How does the PacNet decision affect what Odex is doing?
    The decision in the PacNet case has no impact on the rights of the copyright owners and/or exclusive licensees to protect and enforce the copyrighted works. The copyright owners and/or exclusive licensees continue to have the right to authorize Odex to liase and negotiate with individuals who have been identified as downloaders.

    Are the Internet Service Providers invading my privacy by giving you my contact information?
    No. The Internet Service Providers must respond to orders from the court.
    In the case of SingNet and Starhub, they received court orders to provide Odex with information on subscribers whose Internet connections were identified as being used to download content that has been licensed or authorized to Odex.

    What are the potential penalties for downloading?
    Individuals who are found guilty of downloading face potential criminal charges or civil penalties (including fines). Students face the risk of having their Internet connectivity disconnected or being expelled from school. Internet Service Providers have acceptable use policies posted on their websites addressing potential actions for violating their terms of service.


    There are people who may say that fan-subtitled anime falls within the “fair use” provisions of Singapore copyright law. Is this true?
    Under Singapore copyright law, use of a copyright protected work under certain limited circumstances may amount to fair use. These would include use for purposes of research of study, criticism or review and reporting of current events. Downloading entire episodes of anime programs cannot be said to be fair use of the works involved, especially when it leads to loss of revenue to the copyright owners and/or exclusive licensees of the programs. The fact that the downloaded program is a fan-subtitled version does not make the use any fairer.

    Isn’t it hypocritical for Odex to pursue copyright infringers when Games Mart was raided by the police for selling counterfeit video game equipment?
    Games Mart was founded in October 1994 to sell video game consoles, games and accessories. In 1997, the company was split into two operations: Games Division and Video Division. Prior to the split, the company dealt only in original products. The two divisions operated independently, maintained separate financial records and operated out of separate offices. Peter, Stephen and another director took charge of the Video Division, while the Games Division was run by two other directors. Each division operates independently of the other.

    Games Mart’s Game Division was raided in 1999 for selling counterfeit consoles. The Video Division was not a target of the raid. The investigations did not extend to the Video Division and neither Stephen, Peter or the other director were questioned as part of the investigation nor were they in any way implicated in the investigations.

    Peter and Stephen subsequently shut the company down and joined Odex to bring in Japanese anime. Neither Odex nor any of its directors was involved or implicated in any copyright infringement activity.

    This matter was clarified in the Straits Times Forum on 31 August 2007

    Some people say the frustration with Odex is that its versions have grammatical errors, inaccurate translations and poor video quality and that the fansubs are better.
    In any translation work, there are slightly different ways to say the same thing and our goal is to provide the most accurate translations possible. We believe we have the most advanced video transfer equipment available in Singapore.

    We also believe in providing subtitles that do not cause any discomfort to the various religious and racial groups in Singapore and thus would take the extra mile to remove vulgarities and tone down any offensive language.
    Last edited by spitxfire; Sep 19th, 07 at 05:15 PM.

  2. SDF-2's Avatar Post-Crazy Member
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    SDF-2 is offline #2
    公道自在人心。
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    spitxfire is offline #3
    but its quite difficult lor.... the ST siding with Odex... misrepresent the actual case... make people wrongly believe that Odex is right...

    somemore u know many SGreans quite dumb one... media say what they believe what. if media say "you like to eat shit", one day most Singaporeans will believe that they like to eat shit.

  4. Togusa's Avatar Post-Crazy Member
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    Togusa is offline #4
    it is not that many are dumb. it is that they are trained to be this way.

    If there was no social studies in upper sec. i can tell you, there will be students listening word for word.

    and ST is not really siding with odex. and not misrepresenting the case.
    It is just getting fed for word for word. instead of researching like the press in other countries. And none of us are going up to the press. And if dun realised. odex is right. Cause the law is on their side. It is the style they doing it is wrong.
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    Avast is offline #5
    Odd that Sing says it's Fair Use if the material is used for review, yet when you download a fansubbed anime that's recorded off TV to review it on a blog or anime website, it's still copyright infringement.

  6. lockie's Avatar I'm on a horse.
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    lockie is offline #6
    Must Understand Odex's Reasoning guys, to them, Downloading is Illegal. Thus if you get anime from download it's illegal.

  7. gearchi10's Avatar Senior Member
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    gearchi10 is offline #7
    Don't forget, its anime you dun download from them is illegal

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  8. tueac's Avatar Post-Crazy Member
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    tueac is offline #8
    Downloadinag fansubed/free/pirated anime is and will remain ILLEGAL... and everyone noes it...

    Dont even bother using the "Fair Use", btw its called Fair Dealing in Singapore, on this one since it will not work unless

    A. You are an educator.
    B. News broadcaster.
    C. Reviewer writing for reputable sources.

    There are more, but most likely not many of us are. SO dun mislead people into believing that Downloading Free/Fansub/Pirated Anime is ok, cause its not!


    Quote Originally Posted by IPOS
    Exceptions to Copyright Infringement

    The Copyright Act provides for exceptions to copyright infringement.

    Fair Dealing
    Under the provisions of the Copyright Act, copying the whole or a part of a copyright work is permissible as long as it is a 'fair dealing'. Factors that will be taken into account in deciding whether such copying is a fair dealing include the following:

    * purpose and character of the dealing, including whether such dealing is of a commercial nature or is for non-profit educational purposes;
    * nature of the work;
    * amount and substantiality of the part copied taken in relation to the whole work;
    * effect of the dealing upon the potential market for, or value of, the work;
    * the possibility of obtaining the work within a reasonable time at an ordinary commercial price.

    Where the copying is for the specific purposes of research or study, it shall be taken to be a fair dealing as long as the copying limits are observed. For a published work of at least 10 pages, the copying limits are up to 10% of the number of pages or one chapter, whichever is the greater.

    In other cases, fair dealings for the purposes of criticism, review or reporting current events would not constitute copyright infringement. In the case of criticism or review and the reporting of current events in a newspaper, magazine or similar periodical, a sufficient acknowledgment of the work is required.
    And distributors can be the exclusive distributors and also the copyright holder.

    Correction it's FOUR and Four of the bigger ones

    TV Tokyo, Holder of Rights for Most of the anime aired on their channels
    http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/anime/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_by_TV_TOKYO

    Gonzo Digimation, Holder of rights for All gonzo studio animation and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo_%28studio%29

    TOEI, All fans should have heard of it, one of the first japanese animation studio.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Company
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toei_Animation

    And 1 more i dun noe. o_o|||

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    Last edited by tueac; Sep 19th, 07 at 04:30 AM.

  9. tueac's Avatar Post-Crazy Member
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    tueac is offline #9
    ODEX have plenty of openings but illegal downloaders have alot more... Well the copyright law is revise only in recent years, nothing can be said until the first case is fought and the result out.

    So don't be too certain that Foreign Copyright holders are useless here... BTW they have plently of law to protect them, esp the Japanese. Due to the FTA, the FTA between Singapore and Japan is very interesting, making sure that anything copyrighted in each other's country is automatically copyrighted in both countries. Giving more case to Japan.

    Fansubs helped the anime industry both in the past and now, that is granted but Singapore should also mature like the US, where fansub started, especially since its easier now. If you don't like ODEX buy from others, R1, R2, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong even local. have your pick.

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    Avast is offline #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tueac
    Downloadinag fansubed/free/pirated anime is and will remain ILLEGAL... and everyone noes it...
    So are doujinshis. So is cosplaying. So is playing anime songs at local cosplay events. So is using anime images for your avatar. A lot of things are technically illegal, but most people (businesses and consumers) would rather see them as gray areas cos it's either futile to go after every single infringement (esp when you gain little from it) or it indirectly helps your business. The marketing and promotion potential of fansubs is yet to be proven, but neither has it been disproven.

    It's Odex's dogged insistence to see only one side of things that the anime community aren't happy with. And I see you sing a similar tune as well. Yes, fansubs are illegal, technically, but there's more to it than the legal aspect of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by tueac View Post
    Fansubs helped the anime industry both in the past and now, that is granted but Singapore should also mature like the US, where fansub started, especially since its easier now. If you don't like ODEX buy from others, R1, R2, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong even local. have your pick.
    It was doujinshis and cosplaying in the past, but you can now throw fansubs into the list of fan-based activities that are now a part of the anime culture. Odex may not like it, the business people may not like it, but in the digital age, this is the reality. And fansubs will become a part of the whole consumer process, and there's no changing that.

    In a matured industry businesses adapt and evolve, and what they'll do is either find a way to live with something like fansubs, or better yet, make use of them.

    iTunes legalised MP3 downloads without having to antagonise the whole online community (they've even made downloading off iTunes hip). But Odex's outright rejection of fansubs as nothing more than piracy--and their insistence to see out this war against the anime community at the expense of PR and goodwill--only proves that they've hardly matured as a business, let alone one that is ready for the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by tueac
    C. Reviewer writing for reputable sources.
    Btw, how do you define "a reputable source"? A magazine can be a registered publication, but how "reputable" must it be before it can qualify for Fair Use? My experience with Japanese is that most of them are fearful of putting up screenshots lest they get sued for copyright infringement--and I can understand their worries. But if anyone needs a major shakeup, it's the Japanese industry and their approach to IP rights.

    Oh, and do you know that with so much money at stake in football these days, even fixture lists for EPL teams are copyrighted and you can get sued just for putting them up on a forum? Is this the kind of world you like to live in?

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    Avast is offline #11
    Quote Originally Posted by tueac
    Downloadinag fansubed/free/pirated anime is and will remain ILLEGAL... and everyone noes it...
    So are doujinshis. So is cosplaying. So is playing anime songs at local cosplay events. So is using anime images for your avatar. A lot of things are technically illegal, but most people (businesses and consumers) would rather see them as gray areas cos it's either futile to go after every single infringement (esp when you gain little from it) or it indirectly helps your business. The marketing and promotion potential of fansubs is yet to be proven, but neither has it been disproven.

    It's Odex's dogged insistence to see only one side of things that the anime community aren't happy with. And I see you sing a similar tune as well. Yes, fansubs are illegal, technically, but there's more to it than the legal aspect of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by tueac View Post
    Fansubs helped the anime industry both in the past and now, that is granted but Singapore should also mature like the US, where fansub started, especially since its easier now. If you don't like ODEX buy from others, R1, R2, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, Hong Kong even local. have your pick.
    It was doujinshis and cosplaying in the past, but you can now throw fansubs into the list of fan-based activities that are now a part of the anime culture. Odex may not like it, the business people may not like it, but in the digital age, this is the reality. And fansubs will become a part of the whole consumer process, and there's no changing that.

    In a matured industry businesses adapt and evolve, and what they'll do is either find a way to live with something like fansubs, or better yet, make use of them.

    iTunes legalised MP3 downloads without having to antagonise the whole online community (they've even made downloading off iTunes hip). But Odex's outright rejection of fansubs as nothing more than piracy--and their insistence to see out this war against the anime community at the expense of PR and goodwill--only proves that they've hardly matured as a business, let alone one that is ready for the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by tueac
    C. Reviewer writing for reputable sources.
    Btw, how do you define "a reputable source"? A magazine can be a registered publication, but how "reputable" must it be before it can qualify for Fair Use? My experience with Japanese is that most of them are fearful of putting up screenshots lest they get sued for copyright infringement--and I can understand their worries. But if anyone needs a major shakeup, it's the Japanese industry and their approach to IP rights.

    Oh, and do you know that with so much money at stake in football these days, even fixture lists for EPL teams are copyrighted and you can get sued just for putting them up on a forum? Is this the kind of world you like to live in?

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    lockie is offline #12
    Just because you can doesn't mean you Should

  13. Zer0Hero's Avatar Senior Member
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    Zer0Hero is offline #13
    FAN SUB IS NOT ILLEGAL!!!

  14. tueac's Avatar Post-Crazy Member
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    tueac is offline #14
    Avast >> This may not be the world that everyone like to be in, including me... but its their property... and it's their rule... if you don't like it, you can don't take part in it.

    Grey area as you said, can have a shade of black too... meaning certain truth cannot be denied... Like you said, dojins are illegal, cosplay might be illegal, even putting anime character as avatar is illegal.

    BUT we are some sort of allowed to do those, draw fanarts, do cosplay and even yes... However as time pass these can be taken for granted, for example fansubs... Some even argued that it's legal...(the scary part, above regarding "fair use")

    We must remember that even if we are allowed to do somethings in the grey area, we cannot whitewash it like how spitxfire used "FAIR USE" which is misleading to others. Even the Americans noe and understand that fansubs are illegal and their Fair use law do not apply.

    And under these circumstances are the first fansubber born.

    I personally loved Fansubs and etc... but we cannot argue with property owner when they want to turn it black... just look an alternative lor, say cannot download stream lor... according to Singapore it's perfectly legal to read the information provided in the website. even if the content is illegal, unless otherwise stated.

    And lastly to addon to what lockie said:

    Even if you are "allowed" to do it, Don't take it for granted.

    edit: zero >> FAN SUBs ARE Illegal Face it, it's the truth.


    Silver lining for you >> but the translation might not...

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    Last edited by tueac; Sep 19th, 07 at 07:39 AM.

  15. jenocide's Avatar The Ultrabad
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    jenocide is offline #15
    wtf is this lol!

    xedo never gets enough ar?

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